Success in professional services isn't about doing more—it's about doing less, but doing it exceptionally well.
In this episode of The IC-DISC Show, I sit down with Raffi Yousefian, CEO of The Fork CPAs, to talk about how extreme specialization transformed his accounting firm from a general practice into the leading restaurant and bar controllership service in the country. Raffi shares the counterintuitive journey of deliberately shrinking his client base to accelerate growth, ultimately tripling revenue within 18 months of selling off 30% of his practice.
We explore how Raffi evolved from serving three industries to exclusively focusing on restaurants and bars, and why weekly financial reporting creates competitive advantages that monthly statements simply can't provide. He breaks down the economics of restaurant operations, explaining why 2% savings in food costs can represent an entire profit margin when you're working with businesses that operate on 5-7% net profits. The conversation reveals how subscription pricing combined with deep industry expertise solves the profession's labor shortage by making firms more profitable and attractive to talent.
What strikes me most is how Raffi's specialization philosophy mirrors successful models in other industries, from medical concierge services to dating apps. If you've ever wondered whether narrowing your focus could actually expand your opportunities, this conversation provides a compelling roadmap.
SHOW HIGHLIGHTS
- Raffi sold off 30% of his accounting practice to focus solely on restaurants and bars, then tripled the remaining 70% within just 18 months.
- Weekly financial reporting in restaurants isn't a luxury—it's survival, since a 2% swing in food costs can represent your entire profit margin.
- The Fork CPAs moved from "insecure niching" with three industries to hyper-specialization, proving that doing less actually accelerates growth when done with expertise.
- Restaurant operators typically process 300-400 invoices monthly for a $3-4 million location, making specialized systems and processes non-negotiable for profitability.
- Subscription pricing in accounting solves the labor shortage by making firms more profitable, allowing them to pay better and attract talent to the profession.
- Specialization creates resonance with ideal clients who say "you sound like my soulmate" rather than casting a wide net and hoping something sticks.
Contact Details
LinkedIn - Raffi Yousefian
LINKS
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Raffi Yousefian |
TRANSCRIPT
(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)
Dave:
Good morning, Raffi
How are you today?
Raffi::
Good morning, David. I'm doing well. And yourself?
Dave:
I am doing great. I appreciate you coming on the podcast. Just a formal introduction, you are Raffi Yousefian, and you're the CEO of the Fork CPAs. Is that correct?
Raffi::
That's correct. And I appreciate you having me. I'm excited to have a conversation with a like-minded individual in the accounting industry.
Dave:
Yes. I've been looking forward to this for some time. So what part of the world are you calling into from today?
Raffi::
I am in Brooklyn, New York City.
Dave:
Okay.
Raffi::
Specifically Williamsburg Greenpoint, which is meant to be the hipster capital of the world in case you're interested.
Dave:
Yeah, I have heard that name. For that reason, I don't think I've ever been there. I haven't been to New York in about 15 years, and I think I rarely have ever been anywhere but Manhattan. So I'll have to be sure to check that out the next time I'm in town.
Raffi::
We would love to have you. We're right across the East River.
Dave:
Okay,
Raffi::
Great. Great nightlife scene, great food scene. A lot of sighting. New concepts are popping up every day, bars, restaurants, so it's a great place to be.
Dave:
That sounds awesome. Well, first of all, let's get to the name. What the heck does The Fork CPA's name mean? Usually the CPA firm is named after the founder or the partners. So what's the fork? What's the meaning of the fork? Was one of your partners named Fork or talk?
Raffi::
No. So the fork, I have a 15 slide presentation on it. Maybe I can walk you through it one day. But the fork represents a tool that is highly agile with very sharp and fine edges, and it also relates to the restaurant industry and represents us and our values as a firm. So that's where the four comes from. That's the, in a nutshell description. And then the CPAs, you add that to clarify that we're doing accounting and tax, so that's where work branding comes from. Actually, we launched the brand in 2022, so it hasn't always been our name.
Dave:
Okay. Well, I really like it. So are you a New York native?
Raffi::
I'm not. I'm actually from dc so lived in DC for about 10 years. That's where I started the firm, and I moved up to New York in 2021.
Dave:
And you went to college in Maryland?
Raffi::
Yes, university of Maryland College Park.
Dave:
Okay. And then you graduated and you went the big four route with ENY?
Raffi::
That's right. I worked at ENY for about three and a half years, and then moved to a smaller firm for about a year and a half, two years after that. And this was in 2016 when I launched the firm that I currently have right now.
Dave:
And you just started it from scratch?
Raffi::
So initially the firm was called ROYCA LLC, and I just used my initials with CPA at the end just to get started. Okay. I started it from scratch. At the time I had the potential opportunity to acquire a restaurant bookkeeping business, and that is really what initiated me or catapulted me to taking that leap from moving from a W2 job to starting my own business. The acquisition actually never ended up panning out to be anything. It ended up being more of like a referral relationship. So it was good in that it incentivized me and motivated me to actually take the leap. But as we started from scratch, didn't end up buying any book of business or anything like that and just grew from there January 1st, 2016.
Dave:
And is that how the restaurant and bar capability started, was from that referral relationship with that bookkeeping firm then?
Raffi::
Yes. Well, the referral relationship was a result of me taking over my brother-in-law's finances, and he had a restaurant and catering business.
Dave:
Oh, I
Raffi::
See. And so his accountant was ending their relationship because he was moving on to be the CFO of a big fast growth restaurant group. And so I asked to meet with him. I said, can I meet with the former accountant? Maybe he has a book of business that he wants to sell or get rid of. That's not where the interest in restaurants started, but that definitely had an impact on moving towards that restaurant niche at some point. My first real client was a restaurant business.
Dave:
Okay.
Raffi::
Yeah,
Dave:
That is great. You've got your CPA firm, it's growing. And then at a point you realized you had a concentration in the restaurant bar business. Now, conventional wisdom says when you have a concentration like that, whether it's client industry, you need to fix it by diversifying, but you decided to go in a different direction, right? Tell me the story.
Raffi::
Yeah, so initially the purpose of the firm was to provide an alternative and frictionless experience to traditional public accounting. And this was 2016 when web-based apps were all very new, and even the cloud firms were very server-based. You log into this server and it wasn't very web-based, so even cloud modern firms were still very clunky, and the client experience was terrible. So the idea was, okay, replicate the public accounting model just in a more modern and frictionless way. And so we were still providing a lot of the traditional services you get in a small public accounting firm, 10 forties, monthly bookkeeping, annual bookkeeping, industry agnostic, and one of the first moves. So that was, people love that, right? It was new cutting edge, modern virtual CPA firm. And then I think by year two, we decided we had to narrow down what we were doing.
Raffi::
Again, we were trying to be everything to everyone just in a more modern way. And so I think the first change we made was limit our service offering to monthly services only. So value-based billing, fixed fee. It was a mix of value-based billing and fixed fee at the time. So we basically told all of our annual clients, mostly 10 40 clients, sorry, if you want to work with us, you have to have a business, and we have to own the entire accounting process from monthly all the way through your business tax preparation. So that was the first change we made. We didn't specialize just yet.
Dave:
And what year was this? 2017.
Raffi::
I think this was around 2017 or 20 17, 20 18 then. So that worked really well. That allowed us to scale and grow much faster. Now everybody's on a monthly fixed retainer. You're not doing all this work during tax season, those three months trying to do 12 months of books. So there's no bottlenecks during tax season. For the most part, 10 forties are still very much a bottleneck. And in 20 19, 20 20, we decided to narrow down even further and say, okay, we're going to service three industries. And I like to say this is the insecure way of niching down. And so we narrowed it down to, I believe it was restaurants and bars for sure. Nonprofits and professional
Dave:
Services.
Raffi::
And so that helped again, even better. Now we can scale and grow even faster with more efficiency. And then 2022, we were at a point where the restaurant and bar industry vertical was growing much double, triple what our other verticals were growing. And I believe it was just a natural result of our passion was behind that vertical, the professional services and nonprofits, great clients, low volume, easy to work with, very professional. But yeah, just stagnated the growth that stagnated. I wasn't as much interested in those verticals as I was in restaurants. And so we decided to launch the for brand in 2022 and in 2023. So in 2023, the restaurant practice was about 60 to 70% of our revenue. And so we spun off the 30%, which was nonprofits and professional services, and merged it slash sold it to another firm. And since 2023, March of 2023, we've been solely fork CPAs, Eileen niched down into restaurants and bars under the fork CPAs brand.
Dave:
Okay. I love the story. And then I believe, did Brandon Poe help you sell that practice?
Raffi::
Yes, exactly. I think this was probably the first spinoff maybe that they did spinning off a niche and selling it to another firm, and then continuing as a, so it was new to them. And we actually did a podcast about this with Brandon. And yeah, I think it was, like you said, it sounds counter intuitive to specialize versus diversify, but to provide some context, that 70% between March of 2023 and end of 2024, I think it grew like 250, 300% our revenue. So we were basically triple the size that we were when we did the spinoff.
Dave:
So I have to put some numbers on this. So let's pretend the firm did a thousand dollars a year of revenue. So $700 of it was restaurants and bars. You sold off the $300 practice and then using that multiple, the firm today now is doing 200 or $300.
Raffi::
Well, not today, within a year and a half, within a year and a
Dave:
Half,
Raffi::
Within a year and a half, it was at like 2000. So you were at 1000? We were like 2100. So that 700 became 2100.
Dave:
Wow.
Raffi::
And I think a big part of it had to do with, I actually retained my staff that was part of the nonprofit and professional services vertical. So that was about four people. And so that also helped because you need staff to grow into.
Dave:
And
Raffi::
It did hurt our valuation because a lot of the times when firms are acquiring, they want to acquire the staff, one of the biggest problems when,
Dave:
Yeah, they're just buying the clients basically.
Raffi::
So we took a hit on the valuation, but if we hadn't retained our staff, they wouldn't have been as easy and efficient to scale and grow within that year and a half.
Dave:
So why is it, so it appears based on what you're saying, that there was a underserved market in New York restaurants and bars. That's the only conclusion I can really come to have that kind of a growth implies that the market was not being well served. Is that assumption accurate or was there something else in play?
Raffi::
So we definitely have competitors, but I would say underserved in a sense that the level of service and quality is just not there. It's a highly commoditized service offering restaurant bookkeeping. And so our value proposition is not just restaurant bookkeeping, it's restaurant controllership.
Raffi::
So for the same price as a bookkeeping service, maybe a little bit more of a premium, 20%, 15, 20%, you can get a more comprehensive service offering under a subscription model to a controller. And the controller owns your entire accounting process. And in addition to that, we also have a tax department that will take care of the tax compliance at year end and quarterly. So I don't think we have any actual competitors that do exactly what we do. However, we have at least 40 to 50 competitors nationally. So it is underserved in that sense, but it's not something super unique or cutting edge that we're doing. It's just a different approach, a different way of doing it.
Dave:
And your client's all in the New York area?
Raffi::
No, it's all, it's nationally. Mostly East coast. Yeah, mostly dc, Maryland, Virginia, New York City, metropolitan areas, urban areas, but it's pretty much all over the country. We can serve clients nationally.
Dave:
Now, when you pick up a new client, what percentage of the time is it a brand new restaurant and what percentage of the time are you taking over from another provider? Is it mostly taking over from another provider?
Raffi::
I would say it's about 70% taking over. It depends. For example, we might have a restaurant group that has 10 locations and now let's say 10 franchises, and they're forming a new group and they're starting from scratch with a new concept. So there's some of that. I see most of them are fast growth. So they have the goal of, Hey, we just opened our first location and we want to be at five locations in three years. That's where a solution like ours really provides maximum value because we can help you get from zero to five in as fast as you want because you're not sitting there concerned about hiring accountants and building an accounting department. And so we take care of the back office for you through that growth stage.
Dave:
And what percentage of your clients are franchisees?
Raffi::
It's not a large percentage. It's mostly independent operators, probably five to 10%. We have competitors that focus solely on talk about hyper specialization. They do restaurant bookkeeping for McDonald's franchises, but it gets pretty specific. And that's not necessarily our target market. Our target market is more independent operators, smaller franchise groups, 15 to 20 units, but we're not like a volume commodity shop.
Dave:
So I can relate to your business in so many ways, and it's why when I heard you on Brandon's podcast, I just was dying to talk to you. So as I think I told you, so all we do is icy disc work, and we're the only firm I know of that does nothing but icy disc work. We manage more than anyone else. So all we do, we live, eat and breathe it. But within that space, our largest sector by far is the scrap metal business. And what's interesting, and I hear this all the time from our clients, is that I'm the only advisor they've ever had who understands the scrap metal business, that when they have a banker that they're interviewing new banks or a new CPA, it's always the same thing. They come out and they're like, wow, I thought this was going to be Sanford and Son's junkyard. This is a whole different business. And they get so frustrating. And I've frustrated, and some of 'em have asked me to find CPAs, find them a new CPA, and one of the first things they want is somebody with scrap metal experience because it's so frustrating for them having to, every year there's a new staff person and every year they have to explain all over again how the whole business works. I'm guessing it's similar in the restaurant business. Is that right? And kind of dive into how your expertise manifests itself when you're talking with an
Raffi::
Potential
Dave:
Client?
Raffi::
Yeah, absolutely. Having an accountant in the entire spectrum of accounting services, whether that's your tax preparer, your controller, your bookkeeper, your CFO, having that industry specialization is completely invaluable. And I think the, in any industry, restaurants aside, the consumer is starting to realize that and the level of insight you can provide as a specialist and the value you can add is way beyond what a generalist can do. And sometimes people will hire generalists because of a referral or a trust that they have with this person. And I think that's really the only time where there's any justification in hiring a generalist, to be honest with you. But even that, it's okay, well, sure, this might be your dad's accountant or your family friend accountant that everybody trusts, but is that really providing any value? If you can't trust your service provider, then what's the point?
Raffi::
So yeah, the level of value you can provide, and just to give you some examples, if you have three locations as a restaurant and you want to add another location, you should be able to go to your accountant and say, here is what the landlord is asking for rent. Here's what I'm expecting to do in sales. Is this a good investment? And the accountant, if they're specialized, they should be able to tell you very quickly just by reviewing your projections, your performa and saying, yes, this is an investment that we're not investment advisors, but if your projections actually pan out to be what they say, then yes, we want your occupancy cost to be 8% of sales, and you're showing that in your projection. So yeah, if this spot that you've identified can actually generate that type of sales and your prime costs are going to be this much, your bottom line is potentially going to be this, then your ROI will be X. And therefore, yeah, it's a good investment. Now, a generalist might be able to do that by doing some research,
Raffi::
But that example can be applied to so many different things. When we sit down and analyze p and ls as a controller, we need to be able to look at trends and identify, wait, why do we lose money this month? Very quickly, right on a call, oh, it's because your labor was 35% and it's usually 32%. And in restaurants, it's typically 32, 33 is the ideal number. Just being able to throw out numbers off the top of your head and being well-trained in a specific vertical, it just provides so much value. And we talk about in the accounting industry about how we have to become advisors. This is like AI is going to take over all the compliance overseas hiring and all the bookkeeping is going to be automated. And so now we have to become more advisors and just data entry people and compliance providers. And the only way you can really do that, in my opinion, if you want to be a true advisor, is to niche down and specialize. Otherwise, how much value can you really add as a generalist?
Dave:
Sure. Well, and I was just thinking, I would imagine having come up through the accounting side, I couldn't imagine a worst controller or bookkeeper job than being the bookkeeper or controller for a restaurant. I can just picture it. There's some a closet basically that's your office, and especially if it's in the facility itself and it's not noisy and there's just all this stuff going on, and if it's a bar, all the actions in the evening, and I just couldn't imagine a worst working environment or work environment than that. So it makes even more sense to just have that outsource. And I'm also guessing my clients, probably 20% of the owners of my clients actually have an accounting background just for whatever reason, that was how they ended up there. But I'm guessing that's perhaps even lower in the restaurant business. I just imagine the average restaurateur bar owner is not a former ENY tax person.
Raffi::
Right. So it's funny you bring up the bookkeeping role in a restaurant closet that they put the bookkeeper in traditionally speaking with all the stacks of invoices. So just to provide some context, a restaurant that does three to $4 million in revenue will have anywhere from three to 400 invoices minimum per month.
Dave:
Are you serious?
Raffi::
Yeah. They need to get inputted into the accounting system to get true accrual basis accounting.
Dave:
Wow. I thought you just bought everything from Cisco and payroll and called it a
Raffi::
Day. Well, the franchisees, yeah, the franchisees are all different. They work with a Cisco or usb, and then they have less invoices, but still very high volume. So the role of the bookkeeper 10, 15 years ago was show up to the restaurant, get all these invoices and put them into QuickBooks. And if you're not a specialist, even if you're following the traditional model from 15 years ago, there's no way to make money doing this type of work, especially when restaurants are super low margin. They don't have big budgets for accounting. And so the only way to really make it work is to specialize to have a fixed system process, tech stack around restaurant bookkeeping that allows you to process this high volume and still leave some room to make money as an accountant. So I'll just throw that out there. And then your other question was related to what kind of persona do you get, what kind of demographics do you get on the restaurant industry side, and it's mostly blue collar, a lot of creatives. So I think once you get to the groups, the restaurant groups that have five to 10 people, a lot of 'em start hiring more office workers. More people can sit at a computer and do numbers, which helps a lot on the admin side. But if you're working with a single unit operator or two to three unit operator, you're dealing with somebody that's always on the run. They're always busy, they're in the kitchen, they're wearing multiple hats.
Raffi::
Most of the time they're creatives, they're chefs that created a concept, and that's their strength. Their strength isn't numbers, so it makes it even harder to get information out of them and to keep them organized. And that's really what an accountant bookkeeper does. It just helps somebody stay organized and provides them and helps digest their financials. And a big part of it's just helping them stay organized. So you can first count the numbers, put them into the system, come up with a good workflow. But yeah, it makes it very challenging to work with those types of clients.
Dave:
Sure, I can understand that. Now, my understanding is the restaurant and bar business has one of the highest failure rates of any type of business. Is that true? And what is the failure rate? What percentage then fail in 1, 3, 5 years? I'm sure you have some numbers around that. Or
Raffi::
Actually, believe it or not, there actually is no number and the number is What's your
Dave:
Guess? What's your guess?
Raffi::
They say the myth has always been nine to 10 restaurants fail, something like that. And I've researched this multiple times, and it's really just a myth. There's no hard evidence about that. I don't think it's wrong or it could be very much accurate because it's very high. But any industry, the reason for the failure rate is because of the supply and demand. Everyone wants to open a restaurant, the barrier to entry are low. It's easy to raise money to open a restaurant. Everyone wants to invest in a restaurant. It's just a sexy business. And when you have such a high supply of any type of business, it could be restaurants, it could be filmmakers, it could be musicians, like how competitive the music and film industry is, you end up having an overage of service providers or suppliers or restaurants in this case. And therefore it makes it extremely difficult to generate a profit.
Raffi::
And it is a difficult business to run for sure as well. But I think that's the biggest challenge is once you start making a little bit of money, 10, 15%, boom, another competitor comes in and opens a similar concept down the block or a competing concept, and now there's limited amount of residents or consumers in that neighborhood. So now they go into that restaurant, and especially in cities like DC right now, DC's very competitive. There's just so much money being pumped into restaurants and such a limited amount of guests and consumers. So it's the same, let's say 10,000 people that are going to the same restaurants, let's call 'em upscale, casual restaurants. And every week there's a new restaurant opening. And then you could have the best concept in the world, but it only lasts six months because as soon as you're not the hottest thing in town, another one rolls right in and takes your customer base. So it's very competitive, very low margin, and that's why it makes the financial analysis so much more important.
Dave:
Yeah, I would think so. Is it safe to assume that the failure rate of your clientele is likely lower than the industry average? If you had to guess?
Raffi::
Probably. Yeah. Yeah, our failure rate is pretty low. And I think which might also be overlooked, that insight into your finance is a huge competitive advantage for operators, for restaurant operators.
Dave:
Yeah, I would imagine.
Raffi::
Because even 2%, they're mostly high volume, high revenue businesses, they're top line businesses. So an average full service restaurant probably does three to $4 million in revenue. And so even a 2% savings on your food costs, that can be your entire profit margin right there. So the average restaurant does between three, it used to be like five to 10%, now it's three to 7%. But needless to say, it's pretty low, the profit margin. So if I can provide weekly reports that give managers insight into their labor and food costs, that in itself helps them reduce food and labor costs two to 4%. And it's key to do this weekly, not monthly, right? Because monthly it's already too late. You don't know what you did four weeks ago to be able to tweak and adjust the levers in your business. So yeah, I think it's a competitive advantage. Hey, if I can save you two to 5% just by monitoring the financials, forget all the time savings that I'm going to give you automatically you've added a lot of value and you've maybe even saved that restaurant from going out of business.
Dave:
So I'm curious, just what are the typical expense breakdowns like in a restaurant, how much, what are the food cost percentage range typically in labor and brand, whether,
Raffi::
So it depends on the type of concept, whether it's a pizza shop, whether it's a quick service restaurant versus full service versus steak versus seafood. But generally 60 to 65% is your prime cost. So that's your cost of goods sold and your labor.
Raffi::
And so anytime we see, for example, for quick service, it's about 60%. So anytime we see, hey, this quick service restaurant is doing 63%, it's a red flag, and we bring that up to the operator, you need to adjust. And sometimes they can't adjust something they can't control. The sales are low because scaling of labor, when you have sales fixed labor and the rest is pretty much, it's about eight to 10% occupancy costs, rent, real estate, taxes, insurance, and then the rest is overhead, operating expenses, supplies, GNA, office supplies, things like that. And then that leaves about five to 10% profit at the end if it's run well.
Dave:
Wow, it sounds like a
Raffi::
Terrible business. It sounds like a difficult business to run profit. Very difficult. Yeah. I get a lot of people that come to me and say, Hey, I'm thinking about investing in a restaurant, or I want to open a restaurant. I'm like, run, don't do it.
Dave:
Yeah. There's a joke. I forget how it goes and what industry it is. How do you become a millionaire in the oil and gas business? You start as a billionaire. It's kind of the same in the restaurant. How do I end up with a million dollars restaurant? You start with $10 million.
Raffi::
Exactly.
Dave:
So talk to me, do you have everybody on the same accounting system? For example, all of your
Raffi::
Clients? We more or less, we have two tech stacks that we support. So QuickBooks plus Margin Edge, that's one Tech Stack. And then the other Tech stack is a accounting software called Restaurant 365.
Dave:
Okay. Designed just for the restaurant business. And they're both, and so I know QuickBooks pretty well is the other one.
Raffi::
Yes, everything is web-based. The Margin Edge is just a plugin. It's an app for QuickBooks to essentially convert it to providing restaurant. It's the bridge between the restaurant and the books. Whereas Restaurant 365 already integrates all of that, the plugins into one platform, which is really nice.
Dave:
Have you seen that one is a better fit for most of your clients, or do you have a preference for one over the other?
Raffi::
It depends on the concept for sure. Okay. For example, we have Dave's Hot Chicken. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. The franchise, one of the fastest growing franchises in America. They have a, I'm not sure if it's an agreement, like a franchise agreement or some type of agreement with the restaurant 365, but basically as a franchisee, you get Restaurant 365 templates as part of your,
Dave:
Not
Raffi::
Templates, but it's almost pre-configured so that it makes it very easy to use Restaurant 365. So in those cases we're like, it's going to be much easier to implement this off the shelf solution versus having QuickBooks and Margin Edge and setting it up for the franchise and all that. So it really just depends on the concept.
Dave:
Okay.
Raffi::
Yeah.
Dave:
What are some of the things clients tell you, or what's the feedback you get after six to 12 months? I have to imagine that your clients are really happy with your service. What are some of the things that you hear from folks? So this is your chance to really brag about your team and your business model. What are some of the things you hear?
Raffi::
Typically, it's not so much. The feedback we hear is so-and-so is so great. You have an invaluable resource for our team and our growth. We have a lot of testimonials that we get from clients. They provide so much peace of mind. Now I can focus on what I do best without having to worry about are my bills getting paid? Am I profitable? What are the numbers that I need to look out for? But really we see the results most of the time because you see a restaurant operator that has one location or two locations, and they have maybe an internal person that is a partner in the business that is overseeing the financials. And we do a discovery call with them. We find out they're spending their whole week just getting receipts from employees and uploading invoices to the accounting software. And then we're like, you spend your most of your time on this. And we tell 'em our value proposition, and it's hard for them to believe. And then within seven or eight months, they're out there scouting new locations, improving their margins, really working on the business rather than spending their time doing admin work. And that's extremely rewarding to see.
Raffi::
And not all of them do this. Some will not take advantage of what we provide. Some of them, just like the time savings when we see, okay, this person was stuck at two, three locations, and now they have the time to really focus on growth and building systems and processes and focusing on their vision, and we're just essentially handling their entire back office. They're reporting and providing all the analytical information they need to make these decisions about their growth. That's really nice to see both from their perspective and our perspective. It's a nice partnership to have.
Dave:
And I can imagine that weekly reporting is critical. I can just imagine there's a lot of restaurants that it's a part-time person. It's their accounting firm that does it. It's one of the partners. And basically they get their financials two or three weeks after the month ends. So they're looking at six and seven week old data. And I could imagine that if you have a problem and you're losing money and you don't realize it until after you've lost money for seven weeks, I can see where that could be a problem.
Raffi::
Yeah, exactly. And you're looking at your p and l 15 days after the month ends and you're saying, wait, how do we get 27% labor? Who was doing the scheduling that week? Who was doing the inventory count? What did he change? What did they not change? And when you're doing it weekly, you know exactly what affected or impacted the numbers in your reports. Whereas if it's, and this can apply to other industries as well, not just restaurants, but in restaurants and bars, it's specifically very, especially very important.
Dave:
Yeah. What do you enjoy the most about your current role in this business that you've built?
Raffi::
I really enjoy the growth aspect of it, the vision setting, the vision, setting the goals. We follow the EOS framework
Raffi::
And I love that kind of stuff. Working on the business, setting the goals, as I said, and holding your team accountable to achieving those goals. And it's crazy how quickly you see results when you really commit to it. And I'm still trying to figure out whether I'm a visionary or integrator and I don't know. But I like both. I like ops and I also like sales and marketing and being the CEO, so I'm still trying to pinpoint that. But we have a director of operations and she runs the operations for the most part. But I love setting the vision for operations. Hey, it would be awesome if in a year we can reach a stage where every client is following the same AP process, for example, or something like that. And yeah, I really enjoy that kind of stuff.
Dave:
So let's say we're talking three years from now, and in fact, I may just make a note to have you back in three years. I've never asked a guest this question, and it's probably because I just was in Strategic Coach session last week. If we were sitting down three years from now and looking back over those three years, what would you have liked to have happened both personally and professionally to have been pleased with your progress? Or even just professionally, what would you like to accomplish over the next few years? How do you see the business going?
Raffi::
We have ambitions to grow very quickly, and our mission, I know sounds generic, is to achieve proud employees and happy clients.
Raffi::
And so I'm obsessed with great businesses, which pretty much provide that proud employees that love where they work, they want to do a good job, and the customers and clients are all promoters of the business. That's the ideal goal. So we want to grow while maintaining that. We don't want to become one of these, again, commodity shops where we're just bringing on clients for the sake of bringing on clients and adding numbers to the top line revenue. I think of acquisition as a big part of that. I probably see that in the cards in the next two to three years in terms of us acquiring another firm. And it really narrows down your goal when you're trying to focus on restaurants and bars. So just trying to replicate what we do, providing that controllership level service, maybe acquiring the bookkeeping, restaurant bookkeeping service, and deploying our model so that people paying the same price for bookkeeping can essentially get a much higher level of service. And then thus complimenting our mission, our purpose, which is proud employees, happy, happy clients.
Dave:
I love that. Proud employees, happy clients. That was always Herb Kelleher's philosophy. The founder of Southwest Airlines is he viewed employees as his customers that if he made his employees happy, then they would do a good job with their end customers.
Raffi::
Yeah. Yeah. The Southwest stories pretty amazing. But I think we debated our leadership team debated about the happy employees versus proud employees for a bit.
Raffi::
And I think we very specifically and adamantly decided that we want proud employees because it's not, as soon as you pay happy, nobody's ever a hundred percent happy. We want the clients to be happy and satisfied, but we want our employees to, there's going to be tough times and they're not always going to be happy, and times are going to be tough, but as long as you're doing what you're proud of and it feels rewarding, at the end of the day, it's a job. So we're not expecting everyone to show up to work and be super happy about what they do, but at least we want them to be proud. And I think that comes with passion. If you don't have passion for what you do, you're most likely not going to be proud, and you're probably not the best fit for our company. So it attracts a certain type of employee, but it also pushes out a certain feeling amongst your team.
Dave:
I like it. Well, as we're wrapping things up, I can't believe how the time has flown by. If we could go back to 2011 when you were graduating from the University of Maryland, if you could go back in time and give yourself advice, your 22, 20 3-year-old self advice back then, what advice might you have given yourself based on the experience you've had over the last 14 years?
Raffi::
I like to say I would have niched down earlier, but it's hard to say that's what I would've done if I had done it differently. I'm just not sure because you learn so much by not niching down early on, and
Raffi::
You have to generate revenue when you first start out your firm. So in theory, that's what I would've probably have done niche down earlier. Maybe I would niche down three years earlier, four years earlier, not maybe from the beginning. But in terms of other advice, yeah, I would've probably taken accounting more seriously earlier on because I had so many little businesses at that time when I was in college, I was just still trying to figure things out, and I knew accounting was potentially one of them, but I had a, well before that in college, I had an eBay business where I was selling, going to stores, finding things for cheap and selling them online. And then I had a welding business, and then I had a DJ business. And so I was still trying to figure out, I was very on the fence about do I pursue accounting versus something else, and I would've probably told myself to take it, focus on the accounting much earlier.
Dave:
That is so interesting. I asked that question to a lot of guests, and they almost all have the same answer. But when I asked you the question as I was asking it, I was thinking, oh, that's a dumb question. Most of my guests, they waited 20 years before they started their own business, and their price themselves would've been, be afraid, take the leap early, but you really couldn't have taken it much earlier. You were an employee for five years. You needed to learn the industry, and obviously you had those entrepreneurial tendencies early on, but that is interesting. You wish you had taken the accounting more seriously since that you didn't know then that this is what your future was going to be.
Raffi::
Right. I knew it was going to be in entrepreneurship, growing a business, starting a business, but in hindsight, again, if I hadn't done all the DJing and the parties and the events, I wouldn't have been exposed to how marketing really works and how PR really works. So I don't know. It's hard to say.
Dave:
Yeah, that makes sense. Well, is there anything I didn't ask you that you wish I had asked you?
Raffi::
Yeah, I think when we've talked in the past, we talked about the pricing model when it comes to niche services, I think that's also very relevant. You want to share,
Dave:
Do you want to share how that works or is that something that
Raffi::
Yeah, I think
Dave:
Standard pricing on or whatever your, I didn't want to get too much into pricing. I didn't want you to feel obligated to share anything you didn't want to share.
Raffi::
Yeah. I think another aspect of niching down that is valuable and necessary as it comes to our industry and accounting is the pricing model. So there's various forms of pricing and professional services. You have hourly billing, the traditional hourly billing, you have the value-based pricing, you have fixed fee, and then you have subscription. And the trend, I believe, is moving towards subscription. It was value-based. Hourly is the old model that hopefully most people aren't following anymore. But the subscription model for the industry I think is going to be the best because we have problems in the industry right now. They talk about the shortage of labor and all that and the need to adapt advisory services. But I think it's not just, you can't look at labor in a vacuum. You have to look at why do we have a shortage of labor problem? It's because we have a value proposition problem and we have a pricing problem,
Raffi::
In my opinion at least. And I think subscription pricing is going to change that. And subscription pricing is beneficial to our industry because it prices the relationship and not just the scope of work and value-based pricing the customer. How do they see the value that we're providing? And you price based off of that. But I think once you move into subscription, it completely revolutionizes and changes the value of public accounting and the accounting service in general. And if we want to solve the labor shortage problem, we need to make the industry more profitable and pay people better so that they're incentivized to pursue an accounting degree and get a CPA. And subscription pricing, I believe, really does that in order to provide subscription pricing you to don't need to. But it really helps by niching down, because the whole concept of subscription pricing is you pay this fixed price and we do everything for you. No hourly billing. There's no scope of work. We do everything for you that is in our wheelhouse that we can do under our roof. And when you provide that type of peace of mind and frictionless experience for clients, all of a sudden, I think the potential for profit and paying your better skyrockets.
Dave:
So yeah, Ron Baker would be so proud of your transition.
Raffi::
Yeah, I think it's a little too early. I think he wrote his Times Up book like three, four, or maybe, yeah, three, four years ago, something like that. Something like that. So it might be a little too soon to tell whether it's going to work in practice. It's worked for us, but it's very difficult to implement subscription pricing if you don't niche down
Dave:
Well, and I think the monthly work also helps, like a CPA firm who all they're doing is just the annual tax return. How do you justify a subscription billing? Right? Certainly a month in subscription billing, there's more of a disconnect, but with what you're doing, the tax return is, I don't want to say an afterthought, it's just a inevitable outcome of what you've done throughout the year.
Raffi::
I think the most similar example that's been tried and tested is the medical concierge. So one time medical, one medical, the subscription based medical office that Amazon acquired, I dunno, what was it three, four years ago? So I think it's very similar because you have an annual checkup, so think of that as your tax return. So you pay Amazon, it's a very low price. I don't know what it is, but I dunno, maybe a few hundred dollars a year for your subscription to one-time medical or one medical. And a lot of the medical concierge services work like this, they range anywhere from $50 a month to $300 a month depending on the
Raffi::
Level of service that you're getting. And that gives you unlimited access to a primary care physician. So if I want to go see them every week, it's included in my a hundred dollars a month subscription, and I can get that once a year tax return done or that once a year physical done, but that doesn't really change anything. It doesn't change my subscription. That could be the only thing that I do with them, but just I'm paying for that peace of mind. I know if something happens or if I'm planning for something, I can just call that primary care physician or that accountant and run it by them for no extra charge. And so I think it works well. Maybe it's a little too soon to tell for the accounting industry, but I think it's generally worked with the primary care medical world.
Dave:
No, I think the accounting profession is perfect for it. So are most of your clients now on a subscription basis?
Raffi::
Yeah, it's pretty much all subscription. We have what are called add-ons,
Dave:
So
Raffi::
Our general subscription is controllership services. But anything that they need, for example, IRS audit, gap audit, notice defense, maybe they're pursuing a valuation or a deal, and that's something that we can handle. It's in our wheelhouse. That's all included in the subscription. But when you don't niche down, it's hard to
Dave:
Exactly.
Raffi::
It's hard to limit what you offer. So that's why I think when you say we're very clear that we don't do budgets, so that's not in our wheelhouse. We don't really have anybody on the team that can do budgeting for restaurants. We can get on a call and talk through it with you based off of what we know, but we won't prepare a projection and budget. We're not a CFO service. We're a controllership service. So it's hard to be clear about where you draw the line with your, what's in your wheelhouse, because technically, yeah, I could learn how to budget. I'm an account. It's not that difficult. But again, you can't promise everything. Then you want to try to promise as much as possible so that your subscription has value, but there also has to be safeguards in place.
Dave:
Well, that is a great way to wrap things up. I'm glad that you'd mentioned the pricing. I really appreciate that. Well, I really appreciate your time. Like I said, when I reached out to you, I love your specialization approach. I just think that's the problem with specialization is you have to say no to everything else. And that's so emotionally difficult for people, especially if you have a scarcity mindset then,
Raffi::
Right? Accountants basically.
Dave:
Yes. Yes. So I think that's great. It's no surprise to me, and I really would, if you're up for it, I'd love to check in with you in three years and see how things have gone.
Raffi::
Yeah, I'm definitely up for it. And I also love, you're hyper specialized. That's the IC-disc. I think you mentioned to me how many there are in the country, and it's very limited. Yeah, a few thousand. So that's even more specialized, but it's great. The more specialized, in my opinion, the better. Right?
Dave:
I tell you this quick story. I've learned niche specialists, that niche and specializing firsthand. When I was internet dating in 2000, the infancy of internet dating, and I think I was 35 years old. And what I noticed that most guys did, they had an approach of casting a wide net. And it was, I'm looking for a woman between the ages of 18 and 88, any religion, any hobbies, anybody type. And I think their attitude is, I'm going to cast a wide net. I'm going to get all these fish in the net, and then I can just cherry pick the ones I want. So I'm like, I'm going to try something different. And so let's say I was 34. My criteria was they had to be a year older to two years younger. They had to be tall, athletic Christian, dog loving women with a commitment to excellence. And my friends are like, you're not going to get any response.
Dave:
And I'm like, yeah, you're probably right. And they were right. They were almost right. I got almost no response. But what happened when I did get a response from a woman, it's the same reaction you get. There was resonance because the woman would say, oh my God, you sound like my soulmate. I'm 33, I'm five nine. I used to play college volleyball. I have a golden retriever. And so what would happen is, I think when they were talking to the guys with the white net philosophy, they'd have dinner and the guy would say, wow, you're amazing. You're exactly what I'm looking for. And they're like, no, you're not. Your profile is 18 to 88. It wasn't really, but that's really where I learned it. And I think it's the resonance that you get with specialization, and it worked dating and it worked in my business. Sure. You hear the same kind of resonance thing from your new clients, and you're like, wow, I didn't know such a service existed.
Raffi::
Exactly. Yes. Yeah. It's like a perfect match for both sides, right?
Dave:
But it takes a certain amount of courage and a certain amount of abundance mindset to be able to pull the trigger. The other thing is it's hard to refer people who don't specialize. If you meet an attorney and you're like, what do you specialize in? You go, well, mostly wills. We do the occasional divorce, occasional criminal defense. If you get a speaker sick, you give me a call and you're like, I can't help you. But if they specialize in speeding tickets in one county in Texas, and that's all they do, I talk to somebody, a party, and they say, oh, I got a speeding ticket. I'm like, oh, it's
Raffi::
The first person that comes to mind. Yeah, exactly.
Dave:
Yeah,
Raffi::
It makes a big difference.
Dave:
Yeah, it's great. Well, hey, Raffa, I really appreciate your time. This has been a lot of fun and keep up your work and let's come back in three years.
Raffi::
Thank you, David. I appreciate you having me.
Dave:
There we have it. Another great episode. Thanks for listening in. If you want to continue the conversation, go to ic disc show.com. That's IC dash D-I-S-C-S-H-O w.com. And we have additional information on the podcast archived episodes, as well as a button to be a guest. So if you'd like to be a guest, go select that and fill out the information, and we'd love to have you on the show. So it we'll be back next time with another episode of the IC Disc Show.